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BUCHANAN DISCUSSES CAMPAIGN; BUSH; FORBES; THE NH STRAW POLL WIN Transcript CNN'S LATE EDITION - http://www.cnn.com July 6, 1999

BLITZER: Next up: we'll turn to the race for the White House. Republican presidential candidate Pat Buchanan joins us from Des Moines, Iowa. We'll ask him about his chances of catching up to George w. Bush and the possibility of his running as a third party candidate. Stay with us. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, FEBRUARY 1995) PAT BUCHANAN (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Do not wait for orders from headquarters. Mount up everybody and ride to the sound of the guns. (END VIDEO CLIP) BLITZER: Presidential candidate, and former "CROSSFIRE" host, Pat Buchanan speaking on the night he won the New Hampshire primary in 1996 -- having a little fun. Welcome back to LATE EDITION PRIMETIME. Pat Buchanan made his first run for the White House in 1992. He's hoping the third time will be the charm. And joining us now from the campaign trail in Des Moines, Iowa is Pat Buchanan. Welcome back to LATE EDITION PRIMETIME. BUCHANAN: Thank you Wolf. BLITZER: I'm going to get to the campaign presidential politics in a second, but you just heard Congressman Lazio basically say he's going to run for that Republican nomination for the Senate seat in New York irrespective of whatever Rudy Giuliani does. How does -- what does that mean for a strong Republican like you? BUCHANAN: Well it's -- I think what it means is that Rudy's probably will have a pretty good fight on his hands. Mr. Lazio, I believe, is out on the Island, which is strong Republican territory. The Manhattan party, which would be Rudy's, is a very small party. So I think it could be a pretty spirited contest for the Republican nomination, Wolf. BLITZER: Well Rudy Giuliani is a moderate Republican. He supports abortion rights, he supports gay rights, he supports gun control, he endorsed Mario Cuomo. In a Republican contest between a conservative like Rick Lazio, and a moderate Republican like Mayor Giuliani, who wins in New York state? BUCHANAN: Well I think that -- I don't know Mr. Lazio's positions on the social issues, but I would think that those positions, and the fact that the mayor of New York marches in a Gay Pride parade, which tends to insult St. Patrick's Cathedral every time they go by, would not be helpful in a Republican primary in New York state, especially in upstate, although I believe that Mr. D'Amato was pro-gay rights. So I think it could be a lot more spirited and a closer contest than some people believe. BLITZER: All right, let's move on to a subject you're more interesting in right now: your bid for the presidency. Last month "The Des Moines Register" had a poll in Iowa. It showed George W. Bush, the Texas governor, 38 percent, Elizabeth Dole at 20 percent -- you were down at 5 percent. Since then we've learned that Governor Bush has raised $36 million plus in the first six months of this year. What do you have to do to catch up? BUCHANAN: Well, first Wolf, these polls you keep -- I mean every time we come on we do the poll bit. But look, let's take Mrs. Dole: I think she was up around 35 percent a little while ago -- about three months ago. She's running a very flawless campaign, and a good campaign -- I don't know a mistake she's made, but in many polls she's down in single digits. The governor is very, very high, but what we have to do, quite frankly, is I've got to emerge as the conservative challenger and the populist challenger to the Republican establishment candidate, who I suspect will be George Bush. And the fact that I won the straw poll up in New Hampshire -- the big one in New Hampshire three to one over my closest opponents, and got more than 50 percent of the vote, indicates we are well on the way to becoming the conservative alternative to Mr. Bush in New Hampshire. And I've got to do that in Iowa, in Louisiana, in Alaska and the early states as well. And we're well on the way to doing that. BLITZER: You ran into the governor, Governor Bush, in New Hampshire on Sunday... BUCHANAN: I certainly did. BLITZER: ... on July 4th. Do you believe that he's qualified to be president of the United States? BUCHANAN: Well, I believe he's a personable young man and he's very popular. But I will say this, Wolf. I don't know that the governor has exhibited the knowledge or depth or capacity to deal with the foreign crises this country is going to face in the 21st century, and I hope he will show some of that, but thus far he has not. And I do think it's imperative that we have that in a president of the United States. I knew his father very well before I ran against him, and his father was someone who was steeped in foreign policy. Frankly, from the time he was almost a boy, he was an acolyte of Mr. Stimpson (ph). And so he knew and understand foreign policy. I do not believe the governor has demonstrated or exhibited any grasp of foreign policy whatsoever. BLITZER: Is that going to be the issue? If it boils down to, let's say, you and Governor Bush after New Hampshire as these primaries go on, what will be the big issues separating you from Governor Bush? BUCHANAN: The big issue separating me from Governor Bush right now is that Governor Bush is a Xerox copy of Bill Clinton and Al Gore on China policy, where he favors the current MFN policy for China and bringing them into the WTO. He's a Xerox copy on Kosovo and the Balkans, where he even advocated American troops being put into the Balkans to fight against Yugoslavia. On trade policy, he is a Xerox copy of Clinton and Gore. On immigration policy, which I'm going to talk about tomorrow, he's an open borders man, a Xerox copy of Clinton and Gore. This country, Wolf, needs a choice. We did not get it in '92 and '96 because we ran establishment Republican candidates who by the end of the campaign, no one could tell who stood where between Mr. Clinton and the Republicans. We need a clear-cut choice, and we're going to put back on the agenda for the American people foreign policy, trade policy, American sovereignty, immigration policy -- right down the board. And all these issues, I disagree dramatically with the president of the United States and his vice president, and to my knowledge, every time Mr. Bush has spoken out, he agrees with them and not with me. So we're going to have a good campaign. BLITZER: All right. Let's take a caller from Mesa, Arizona with your question for Pat Buchanan. Go ahead, please. CALLER: Hello. BLITZER: Go ahead. BUCHANAN: Hi. CALLER: Hi, Pat. In 1996, after Bob Dole captured the nomination, you never fully came out and officially endorsed him. This year or next year, I should say, if George W. Bush gets the nomination, are you going to follow in line with the other candidates and endorse him? BUCHANAN: Well, first off, your question is based on a faulty premise. Not only did I endorse Bob Dole at San Diego in 1996, I worked for him in the fall election. I endorsed Mr. Bush in '92 when he beat me and campaigned for him in that election. I have endorsed and campaigned and worked for every presidential candidate of the Republican Party since 1964 when I was Goldwater-ite. BLITZER: So what is -- what is all this talk about a third-party run potentially by Pat Buchanan? Let me read to you what you told Robert Novak, your former "CROSSFIRE" colleague in an interview that was published on July 1st. You said: "I have not gone to a meeting where someone has not got up and asked me to leave the Republican Party and go third party. People get up, some of them in tears, who have been Republicans all their lives, and they don't know what to do." BUCHANAN: I'll tell you what that means is exactly what it says, Wolf. Every meeting I go to, I find people who are disenchanted, disillusioned, broken-hearted over what the Republican Party in Washington has done to our agenda and our cause after all the hopes we invested in it. Some of them say, "Pat, get out and go third party." Others say, "Pat, you can't leave our party." They don't know what to do, Wolf, and this is why we're trying to rally and energize these folks and tell them we almost won it last time and we can win it this time. I was telling Bob Novak the truth about what I'm hearing. And if you ask other candidates and they're truthful, they will tell you at every gathering they go to: They hear denunciations because they see our party crawling into bed with Bill Clinton and Al Gore and refusing to fight. And this is why I have got the disagreements with Forbes and Mr. Bush. There is no clear difference between them on foreign policy, on trade policy, on immigration policy. The only one that has a difference across the board with them is Pat Buchanan. And that's why we almost won in '96 against the entire establishment, and we intend to do it this time. BLITZER: You know, Paul Weyrich, as you probably know, came out this week and effectively said that Steve Forbes should be the alternative to George W. Bush. Let me read to you what Paul Weyrich, a social conservative, said this week. BUCHANAN: Wolf... BLITZER: Listen to what he -- listen to what he said. He said: "Other candidates appear to be more closely aligned with the social issue positions I have taken. But in the end, what matters is who can deliver on these issues if elected. I have concluded that Forbes is in a better position to deliver than even the most ardently committed social issue candidates." Presumably a reference to you. BUCHANAN: Look, Steve Forbes might -- to Steve Forbes, Mr. Bush's $36 million is pocket change. But Steve Forbes spent that sum last time and more. And -- and, Wolf, I beat Steve Forbes. I mean, Forbes ran 4th in Iowa where I ran second. He ran 4th in New Hampshire. I beat him in every state but about three or four where he put down enormous sums of money. If Steve Forbes did not have that money, no one would take him seriously as a presidential candidate at all. And again, Mr. Forbes agrees with Mr. Bush who agrees with Mr. Gore who agrees with Mr. Clinton on Kosovo, on immigration, on MFN for China. You name it. We need to get these issues back on the table, American sovereignty, and recapturing our sovereignty. And if we go down the road with another establishment Republican, we got 37 percent in '92. We got -- what? -- 43 in '96. We need someone who represents a real difference with Clinton and Gore. And I think I'm one of the few in the party that represent that. And I'm the only one that represents that who can win... BLITZER: All right. We only have a few... BUCHANAN: ... as I showed in '96. BLITZER: We only have a few seconds. So you're ruling out -- you're ruling out a personal third-party run? BLITZER: Look, I hear -- the latest I hear is Lowell Weicker is going to be the Reform Party candidate. I am running in the Republican caucus. We won that straw poll in New Hampshire. We're going to work hard to build up strength out here in Iowa in this caucus, and I'm going into the Republican primaries. The Republican primaries. BLITZER: Pat Buchanan. Third time may or may not be a charm, but it's always good to have you on LATE EDITION PRIMETIME. Thanks again for joining us. BUCHANAN: Pleasure, Wolf.